Curse

Jeydra · Jun 02, 2011, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Power trading gets money, but in most cases, it's just used an excuse by people to hide how they really got the amount of wealth they have. Also people seem to think powertrading is something "consistent". It's not. You could have 20 good deals one day netting you over 5M on that same day, but you could go weeks without making any profit.

Also, power trading is based of the fact that people are stupid (they don't know what something is worth) and that there is a way larger demand than supply. (So u can make big profit) With 6 years of GW under our belt, there is very few people left who allow for such powertrading to happen. Most people know what stuff is worth, and if not, they usually have friends/forums where they can find that information.

You'll also rarely ever find people who desperately need something and will severlely overpay for it, because the game is so old, and there's no need to "rush" things anymore.

Lol @ someone commenting on power trading when he's clearly no expert on it. Look at shadeblade47's post and see what power trading really is like. "But there aren't people so stupid to sell q9 Emerald Blades for 15e". Too bad then I suppose, if you don't have the patience to wait for good deals.

Power trading isn't making a good deal every 10 minutes. If you make 5 million gold in one day, you're already extremely rich. You may not make any killer deals over the next week, but there are consistent powertrades you can make (trading Lockpicks, ZKeys, Ectos), so you shouldn't ever not be making money. Incidentally, power trading isn't necessarily preying on the uninformed. There can be informed players who just want to get rid of something quickly, or generate money quickly, or believe market trends will change in a certain way (WTB Elite Derv tome just before the Derv overhaul, anyone?).

Somehow you make me think that some PvP'ers are just jealous how much faster PvE'ers can accumulate gold ...

thedarkmarine · Jun 02, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Won't those all share the same ip adress? How many accounts stacked does it take, 25? 50? Anet can't detect that? 50 accounts from 1 ip farming ectos?

botters are not dumb like that

RedDog91 · Jun 02, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44

A typical UWSC takes about 30 minutes. This is somewhat of an average between pro guilds who go about 22 minutes and PuGs who go about 40 minutes.
Not sure about other people...but I usually only get 4-5 ectos per uwsc (yeah...I usually only get the end chest rewards). I can farm between 10-12 ectos per hour by SoS'ing the chamber over and over. So by my personal experience, you get more ectos farming than SC'ing.

"But you SC to potentially get Dhuum's Soul Reaper, mini dhuum, and/or mini smite crawler!!!"
And how many times have you gotten one?

Our Virus · Jun 02, 2011, 02:54 AM // 02:54

WTB zkeys 5.3k each (100)

WTS zkeys 5.8k each (100)

I just made 50k, what a waste of ten minutes

Essence Snow · Jun 02, 2011, 03:38 AM // 03:38

After a certain point it all becomes vanity....All most ppl need for the game comes via regular play, for the vain yeah there's other means. (ofc not including contest winners)

I know I didn't buy this game to stand in Kamadan buying and selling for artificial wealth to convey some sorta epeen that says "I don't actually play the game I just ptrade"

Ofc there are the dupers....we all know who some are that escaped the ban hammer/scythe...famous? not really...notorious? disliked more probable

And lastly rmt which is the sadest of the three. It has to be a pretty pathetic feeling to buy artifical wealth to get an epeen knowing you spent rl cash for it. (or even worse spent someone else's rl cash for it)

Showtime · Jun 02, 2011, 03:46 AM // 03:46

learn to farm. tons of guides and vids and guilds to help ya.

learn to trade. it's like anything else. you have to learn to trade and take risks.
unless you spend time in kam and places like guru, you won't know what is worth what and when prices change. if u buy that r9 obs edge for 33 ectos and expect to turn for 43 ectos in an hour or less, you may fail. then you try again the next day and notice that several people are selling for 40 ectos which means some are taking less. with new farms and people learning new exploits every so often, you have to be careful. as more people acquire anything, the value drops unless they hoard it. that's why old school weapons that don't drop any more are worth far more than any edge tormented voltaic whatever. i have to check here when trading since i don't hang in kam much anymore.

if you're not rich, no reason to put all that effort in to be that. save it for gw2. in the meantime, doa scs, uw, fow, feather farming, con sets, pvping will make you enough to fill your hom, dress up your toons, and pay for gwamm title. so what if you don't own a min kanaxai.

if you are kinda rich with a couple- several k ectos and don't want to farm or play the game, then trading rare mini's, items, or large amounts of stuff and flipping for profit is obvious way to get more loot.

OR you could help out new guildies and give stuff away to friends. Let them hold their 1st crystalline or tormented weapon. help them get that armor they are saving up for or title/gwamm or fill their hom. thats been more satisfying to me than any mini so far.

OH and don't hate. Unless they cheated, they spent the time or got lucky enough to score a lot of loot. That's just like real life. Those who focused or got lucky or cheated, come up.

Martin Alvito · Jun 02, 2011, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

There's obviously also legit ways of getting filthy rich, as pointed out above, but the richest people in Guild Wars did not get there through one of these way, you can be sure of that.

As usual, your prejudices are getting in the way.

The math is straightforward. Suppose that you obsessively pursued wealth for 12 hours a day for a year. The best method for doing that was dungeon running, which paid 100k-250k an hour depending on the dungeon if you were skilled. At 100k per hour, running dungeons 12 hours per day for 365 days, you would have 438,000,000 gold at the end of a year. (Assume that you have two accounts with the second account constantly converting gold to ecto.) At 7k/ecto, you end up with 62,571 ecto at the end of a year.

That's filthy rich. No power trading required, just a lot of time. (No, I haven't got that kind of time on my hands.)

Sitting in Kamadan watching pixels scroll by isn't an efficient use of your time, and never was. It only makes sense to sit there during certain events when it's unusually likely that players will acquire a high value item and underprice it. Otherwise, it's best to poke your head in for a few minutes, spam something a couple of times if you have something to unload, note who's selling high value items, place some bids and get back to productive endeavors.

majoho · Jun 02, 2011, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emperor Bush

This thread makes me miss red resign day.

I never resigned once.

Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

botters are not dumb like that

No they are much dumber... for botting.

Enko · Jun 02, 2011, 06:43 AM // 06:43

that's my little collection. The height of my wealth was 800 ectos and 1 armbrace (which was used to purchase the Kanaxai).

Most of my money then was just made from selling Unid golds.

matter of time · Jun 02, 2011, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

A typical UWSC takes about 30 minutes. This is somewhat of an average between pro guilds who go about 22 minutes and PuGs who go about 40 minutes.
Not sure about other people...but I usually only get 4-5 ectos per uwsc (yeah...I usually only get the end chest rewards). I can farm between 10-12 ectos per hour by SoS'ing the chamber over and over. So by my personal experience, you get more ectos farming than SC'ing.

"But you SC to potentially get Dhuum's Soul Reaper, mini dhuum, and/or mini smite crawler!!!"
And how many times have you gotten one?

You are the most lucky person farming chamber UW I have heard of ... I have made ( and plenty of my mates) this farming hundreds of times ... our average is around 2-3e per chamber ... same for UWSC

at topic ... putting aside illegal ways of making money in GW, obviously great money are from trading (in fact some pll are playing the game sitting i Kamadan all day trying to find hot trades - for me sick but it seems that for some pll this is fun), historical purchases ( done over 3 years ago) and some pvp hardcores. Doing SC, Vanqs, collecting crap etc will give you a decent amount of money but for sure not so much to purchase panda, IG or Kanaxai

my 2 cents

Raven Wing · Jun 02, 2011, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

You know how I make money? It's called Garbage Collecting. Ever see someone not pick up their drops? I collect them, sell it and build up my supply of gold.

No farming. No power trading. Just good ol' playing the game and garbage collecting. After all, one person's trash is 1/5000 of a future set of Obsidian Armor.

I do that often. Try staying behind in DOA after a speedclear is complete and rest of the team left. Bring a merch stone. You can easily make 20k from looting garbage (and salavage the suitable stuff for mats), and sometimes ppl leave gems and valuable req8 items behind too. It is easy to gain nice extra cash by that.

BUT: You get comfortably rich from that, just not super rich. Over time you can accumulate maybe a stack of extra ecto from that, and as said earlier 1 stack doesnt make you super rich.

In my view there are basically 4 ways to get super rich.

1. Be there,do the right thing at the right time. Examples: Bought denravi swords before they disappeared, had perf req7 weaps dropping and kept them from 2005. Looting the free chest in south shiverpeaks before it disappered. Or a thing I got into myself right before it was too late, barrage/pet teams in tombs. I made myself a obsi armor from there with not too big effort. If I had been there from the beginning and spent enough time I could have made many millions. Lots of other examples. All have in common that you cannot just go do it now, but you must wait for the next similar opportunity to arrive, and grab the chance when it is there, using that sixth sense of yours.

2. Luck. Win contest and get a reward, be the first to get a new mini etc. The first person to open a EL destroyer certainly got a good start towards getting rich.

3. Powertrading. Self explaining. It was asked, where does all this wealth come from. I guess its the bots and RMT that infuse it into the game. Some rich kid buys a stack of e with daddys creditcard. The powertrader buys a cool item for 20e expecting to resell for 30-40e. The rich kid sees cool item and buys for 50e. Thats my guess as how extra ectos get infused into economy. Without rich kid the powertrader might only sell for 30e, making much less profit. Ofc there is lots of genuine hand farmed ectos, armbraces etc, but the bots increase the amount.

4. Cheating and rulebreaking, no need to go into details here.

VikingHaag · Jun 02, 2011, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Collect garbage (if u have space), salvage the living hell out of items with iron, dust, feathers, granite (use wiki to learn).
Learn to watch others people drop, sometimes somebody forgets something really nice (that's how i got a shield i sold for 35e some time ago).
If somebody is that stupid to allow you powertrade, please use the chance, if he doesn't know a CC is worth 10e+ most of time and sells it as unid gold, he deserves it.
Learn a build you find easy and use it, grind till you hit the lucky shot and enjoy the profit.
If you're aiming for gwamm, use the time you'll use doing it trying to get money, AFK VQ is easy money in elona. Start thinking outside the square, most people don't know a skin? sell it claiming it's new (don't know if it's considered scamming, but i sold a Sea Purse shield for 80k, was q10)

Urcscumug · Jun 02, 2011, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lest121

what's the GW megamillion lottery?

If you mean pure luck, an inscribable weapon drop with low requirement (<=9), high/max damage and nice skin. You can also try your luck opening gifts, bday presents etc. and hoping for a green mini. But it really is a lottery -- the house wins 99 times out of 100, not you.

If you mean simple stuff with almost no skills required, it really is simple. Selling unid golds. Selling mats as they add up. Simply playing the game, doing quests and missions. Selling unopened gifts and substituting yourself to the house in the lottery game. Picking up, identifying and merching every white. This last one is probably the most overlooked money-making activity in the entirety of GW, considering 4g cost of identification and merch prices starting from at least double (and that's in the lowest possible areas).

If you mean stuff that takes some skill, trading, solo farming, and dungeon/elite area runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

He said someone pm'd her and offered her 100k for it. To her it was more money than she had ever had and quickly sold it before he could warn her not to. We both knew she got scammed, but she hadn't been playing long and thought it was a good deal.

If she thought it was a good deal, it was. That's one of the most basic principles of any trade: have all participants walk away happy. "Coulda woulda shoulda" doesn't enter into it. It only serves to make yourself crazy.

Look, I don't want to get into the psychology of the moment a person parts with their stuff or money. Some say "a fool and their money are soon parted". But did you stop to consider that maybe the "fool" is happy with how things turned out?

Speaking of which, did you two rush to tell her she got "scammed" right away, or did you think "she's happy, let it be"? It strikes me as funny that, if you told her, you're the ones that ruined it for her, not the buyer.

I'm also curious as to how exactly you reached the conclusion that 100k for a never-before traded mini is not a fair price. Based on what, the purely theoretical price it would have never fetched because her dad would've never let her sell it?

Man, I love people who ride high horses through pink fluffy clouds, God bless 'em. I'm sure that people who trade in the real world strike you as cynical arseholes and I understand the pleasure you get in calling them "scammers". But if you're honestly interested in expanding your horizon, try this: a thing is worth exactly what the seller thinks it's worth. You can easily get more money. A sense of satisfaction is harder to achieve. And the mini itself clearly didn't hold any value for her, otherwise she wouldn't had been so eager to part with it.

Now, I'll admit that I tend to dislike people who constantly prey on newbs, those who initiate undercut deals in newb outposts. Not for some misguided sense of "justice" or blind adherence to some inexistent price list; those are abstracts. Plus, ignorance is no excuse, ever; if you click "open trade" without knowing what you're doing, or YOU come to ME saying "here's an armbrace for 100g", it's your problem (and I might just take that armbrace, and you can chuck it up to life experience). But to initiate such deals says something about the person; it's like taking candy from a baby, and you have to be a real arsehole to do that, especially if you already have all the candy you need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

"I don't actually play the game I just ptrade"

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps power-trading takes some actual skill?

And you can't simply jump in and do it? Allow me to quote myself:

Quote:

Many people think it's easy but actually it takes a lot of knowledge of the goods, a lot of time scanning trade chat for the right WTB or WTS, haggling and people skills that will get you what you want without coming across as an arsehole or scammer, basic economy principles, knowing when prices will go down or up, and a knack for knowing when to do the trade now and when to hold on some more time. That knack can't even be taught, it's pure inspiration, you either have it or you don't.

Different people play GW for different reasons. For some it's collecting trinkets. For some it's getting titles. For some, it's trading. It's a testament to the beauty of GW that it can be so many things to so many people.

floor · Jun 02, 2011, 10:15 AM // 10:15

seems to me that a lot of people share my opinion. Getting super rich cannot be done legit. Earning a few stacks of ectos/keys is relatively straightforward, for me i do it through GvG tournaments (and snowball AT's at christmas). But theres no way anyone could earn tens of thousands of ectos legally, nobody could farm that much without getting massive real life depression.

spun ducky · Jun 02, 2011, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I admit I abused the hell out of the dye trader when the regions were separate. I traded my euro account and american vice versa to tons of gold/ecto. I was also at the trader for the reset with a few hundred plat so buying ecto at 100g-1k each when they went up to some what near that time 23k each.

I hit a few crystalline swords as well from twin serpent lakes and the dreadnaughts chests before those were removed. I wish I had kept those since what was a lot then is pennies compared to now.

The duping did leave more than a few extraordinary wealthy players. The mallyx exploit pretty well got stomped out and even if they hadn't banned it wasn't near as bad as the dupe.

The odd ball contest/mini pet activation codes were another source of being there at the right time.

The final big one is the bots which honestly affect all online RPG's but guildwars is quite a bit more susceptible with the instance based play.

In the grand scheme though the insanely rich people rarely took one of these vectors but rather multiple and were cautious enough to not get banned/robbed along the way.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 02, 2011, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

From Beta to early 2007 prices were fair and most everything was obtainable with basic farming
Look at an old Kanaxi Thread http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/g...t10107450.html
The highest bid 250e and someone laughing at that offer being too high.

Then we have the following events

The Great Dupe of 2007

Tournament Reward Points buying z-keys added

Armbraces being recognized as currency and The development of DOA Speed Clears

RIP Normal Prices 2007

It's funny how you keep QQ'ing bout DoASC, whilst it doesn't actually mean that much at all. 250e/month isn't as much as you think, I know people that make way, way, way more money than that.
Also, DwG is really killing our trades, Armbraces down to 21-22e, gemsets being pushed down to 10-11k/ea, it's getting harder and harder to get a fair price for our stuff..

cataphract · Jun 02, 2011, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

Not for some misguided sense of "justice"...

Misguided sense of justice... I love Guru just because of things like these.

Friend: Ohai! I was just slashing my way through PvE which I rarely, if ever, play and I got this sword drop. It's kind of ugly to me and I was wondering if you'd buy it for 10k to help me get money for Obsi armor.
Me: What kind of sword is it?
Friend: Elemental Sword, req 9.
Me: Go to Guru and put it up for auction.
Friend: That place is crawling with retards and auction takes time. QQ
Me: You'll get more than 10k for it.

Three days later he sold it for 800k.

At that time I was farming as a 55 monk and 800k took a while to get. Then this bastard decides to stop his PvP thingies and play through NF. And in his first pass gets the Ele Sword to drop.

I'd rather be misguided than cheat someone for personal gain. This has been applied from RL to on-line, not vice-versa. Before you start ranting how I'd act differently if it were RL money or whatever.

cya

Urcscumug · Jun 02, 2011, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

I'd rather be misguided than cheat someone for personal gain.

So you set your friend straight, it's perfectly normal.

But consider that a complete stranger approached you in a high-level outpost and insisted you take it for 10k, even after telling him it would fetch more on Guru. You still wouldn't take it?

If not, I'd love to hear the reason. You're denying the man 10k he needs right then and there, chances are he's not a newb, and you've satisfied your moral bone by warning him it could be worth more.

nologic · Jun 02, 2011, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

It's funny how you keep QQ'ing bout DoASC, whilst it doesn't actually mean that much at all. 250e/month isn't as much as you think, I know people that make way, way, way more money than that.
Also, DwG is really killing our trades, Armbraces down to 21-22e, gemsets being pushed down to 10-11k/ea, it's getting harder and harder to get a fair price for our stuff..

They would have gone down in price eventually due to people getting
all their stuff for HoM.
People would have seen it coming.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 02, 2011, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by nologic

They would have gone down in price eventually due to people getting
all their stuff for HoM.
People would have seen it coming.

I know, it's just annoying^^

Jun 02, 2011, 03:38 AM // 03:38	#45
Essence Snow Unbridled Enthusiasm! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: EST Guild: DPR	After a certain point it all becomes vanity....All most ppl need for the game comes via regular play, for the vain yeah there's other means. (ofc not including contest winners) I know I didn't buy this game to stand in Kamadan buying and selling for artificial wealth to convey some sorta epeen that says "I don't actually play the game I just ptrade" Ofc there are the dupers....we all know who some are that escaped the ban hammer/scythe...famous? not really...notorious? disliked more probable And lastly rmt which is the sadest of the three. It has to be a pretty pathetic feeling to buy artifical wealth to get an epeen knowing you spent rl cash for it. (or even worse spent someone else's rl cash for it) __________________ ~"Serenity now.... Insanity later"~

Jun 02, 2011, 06:43 AM // 06:43	#49
Enko Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: VA Profession: Mo/	that's my little collection. The height of my wealth was 800 ectos and 1 armbrace (which was used to purchase the Kanaxai). Most of my money then was just made from selling Unid golds. Last edited by Enko; Jun 02, 2011 at 06:49 AM // 06:49..

Jun 02, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44	#43
RedDog91 Desert Nomad Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Farming for Nick gifts Profession: R/	A typical UWSC takes about 30 minutes. This is somewhat of an average between pro guilds who go about 22 minutes and PuGs who go about 40 minutes. Not sure about other people...but I usually only get 4-5 ectos per uwsc (yeah...I usually only get the end chest rewards). I can farm between 10-12 ectos per hour by SoS'ing the chamber over and over. So by my personal experience, you get more ectos farming than SC'ing. "But you SC to potentially get Dhuum's Soul Reaper, mini dhuum, and/or mini smite crawler!!!" And how many times have you gotten one?

Jun 02, 2011, 02:54 AM // 02:54	#44
Our Virus Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2011 Guild: The Capital [Para] Profession: P/	WTB zkeys 5.3k each (100) WTS zkeys 5.8k each (100) I just made 50k, what a waste of ten minutes

Jun 02, 2011, 03:46 AM // 03:46	#46
Showtime Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: WTB Q9+5e Bows/Q8 14^50 Weapons Profession: R/P	learn to farm. tons of guides and vids and guilds to help ya. learn to trade. it's like anything else. you have to learn to trade and take risks. unless you spend time in kam and places like guru, you won't know what is worth what and when prices change. if u buy that r9 obs edge for 33 ectos and expect to turn for 43 ectos in an hour or less, you may fail. then you try again the next day and notice that several people are selling for 40 ectos which means some are taking less. with new farms and people learning new exploits every so often, you have to be careful. as more people acquire anything, the value drops unless they hoard it. that's why old school weapons that don't drop any more are worth far more than any edge tormented voltaic whatever. i have to check here when trading since i don't hang in kam much anymore. if you're not rich, no reason to put all that effort in to be that. save it for gw2. in the meantime, doa scs, uw, fow, feather farming, con sets, pvping will make you enough to fill your hom, dress up your toons, and pay for gwamm title. so what if you don't own a min kanaxai. if you are kinda rich with a couple- several k ectos and don't want to farm or play the game, then trading rare mini's, items, or large amounts of stuff and flipping for profit is obvious way to get more loot. OR you could help out new guildies and give stuff away to friends. Let them hold their 1st crystalline or tormented weapon. help them get that armor they are saving up for or title/gwamm or fill their hom. thats been more satisfying to me than any mini so far. OH and don't hate. Unless they cheated, they spent the time or got lucky enough to score a lot of loot. That's just like real life. Those who focused or got lucky or cheated, come up.

Jun 02, 2011, 09:38 AM // 09:38	#52
VikingHaag Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Rio de Janeiro Guild: [Lost] Profession: Mo/	Collect garbage (if u have space), salvage the living hell out of items with iron, dust, feathers, granite (use wiki to learn). Learn to watch others people drop, sometimes somebody forgets something really nice (that's how i got a shield i sold for 35e some time ago). If somebody is that stupid to allow you powertrade, please use the chance, if he doesn't know a CC is worth 10e+ most of time and sells it as unid gold, he deserves it. Learn a build you find easy and use it, grind till you hit the lucky shot and enjoy the profit. If you're aiming for gwamm, use the time you'll use doing it trying to get money, AFK VQ is easy money in elona. Start thinking outside the square, most people don't know a skin? sell it claiming it's new (don't know if it's considered scamming, but i sold a Sea Purse shield for 80k, was q10)

Jun 02, 2011, 10:15 AM // 10:15	#54
floor Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: England Guild: Activity Can Be An Issue [afk] / Queen And Country [QC] Profession: Mo/W	seems to me that a lot of people share my opinion. Getting super rich cannot be done legit. Earning a few stacks of ectos/keys is relatively straightforward, for me i do it through GvG tournaments (and snowball AT's at christmas). But theres no way anyone could earn tens of thousands of ectos legally, nobody could farm that much without getting massive real life depression.

Jun 02, 2011, 10:20 AM // 10:20	#55
spun ducky Jungle Guide Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: WTB: q8 bows Profession: R/N	I admit I abused the hell out of the dye trader when the regions were separate. I traded my euro account and american vice versa to tons of gold/ecto. I was also at the trader for the reset with a few hundred plat so buying ecto at 100g-1k each when they went up to some what near that time 23k each. I hit a few crystalline swords as well from twin serpent lakes and the dreadnaughts chests before those were removed. I wish I had kept those since what was a lot then is pennies compared to now. The duping did leave more than a few extraordinary wealthy players. The mallyx exploit pretty well got stomped out and even if they hadn't banned it wasn't near as bad as the dupe. The odd ball contest/mini pet activation codes were another source of being there at the right time. The final big one is the bots which honestly affect all online RPG's but guildwars is quite a bit more susceptible with the instance based play. In the grand scheme though the insanely rich people rarely took one of these vectors but rather multiple and were cautious enough to not get banned/robbed along the way.